Most of Those Outraged by ACA Enjoy Big Taxpayer Subsidies

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7rob7
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Most of Those Outraged by ACA Enjoy Big Taxpayer Subsidies

Post #1 by 7rob7 » November 12th, 2013, 2:59 pm

[center]Most of Those Outraged by Obamacare Enjoy Big Taxpayer Subsidies Themselves[/center]
Why do conservatives have such a visceral hatred of a market-based expansion of health care coverage once championed by the Heritage Foundation – a scheme that their last presidential candidate called an expression of “the ultimate conservatism”?

It’s not only because it was passed by a Democratic president they loathe. According to a recent study of Republican base voters conducted by Democracy Corps, Obamacare “goes to the heart of Republican base thinking about the essential political battle.”

    They think they face a victorious Democratic Party that is intent on expanding government to increase dependency and therefore electoral support… [They believe that] insuring the uninsured dramatically grows those dependent on government.

    Tea Party participants, in particular, were very focused on those who claim “rights” in the form of government services, without taking responsibility for themselves.

Race, according to the study’s authors, plays an unspoken role in determining who is and isn’t counted among the “deserving” poor.

It also dovetails perfectly with the overarching mythology that animates today’s conservative movement: the belief that there exists a large group of shiftless people whose lifestyles are subsidized by an increasingly overburdened class of hard-working Americans. It’s the ‘makers versus takers’ narrative that animates the movement – from the lowliest right-wing blogger to Mitt Romney’s claim that 47 percent of Americans don’t pay taxes and refuse to take care of themselves.

It’s also complete nonsense. The reality is that virtually all Americans are, at various stages in their lives, both “makers” and “takers.”
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Bill Bryan
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Re: Most of Those Outraged by ACA Enjoy Big Taxpayer Subsidi

Post #2 by Bill Bryan » November 12th, 2013, 3:56 pm

"Subsidies" is really kind of a misnomer, as the reality is they're "tax credits". You DO have to reconcile the "subsidy" you get on the following year's taxes and you might have to repay it if your income shoots up unexpectedly.

But they're calling them "subsidies" because they're paying the insurance company directly in advance, and then it doesn't get reconciled until the following April 15.
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7rob7
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Re: Most of Those Outraged by ACA Enjoy Big Taxpayer Subsidi

Post #3 by 7rob7 » November 12th, 2013, 4:49 pm

As I've tried to establish with Jeff, "subsidy" is any government policy that lowers the direct cost of a good or service to the user. That would cover "tax credits," I think.

Broad, I know, but it sure would reduce a lot of nit-picking (mine included) if everyone used the same definition. :smoking:
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JeffDeWitt
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Re: Most of Those Outraged by ACA Enjoy Big Taxpayer Subsidi

Post #4 by JeffDeWitt » November 15th, 2013, 12:26 pm

I don't argue about the definition of subsidy, words have meanings and you are the one with the dynamic dictionary.

However there is a HUGE difference between a tax break and a subsidy. In the former you get to keep some of YOUR OWN MONEY, in the latter you are given SOMEONE ELSE'S money.

And in a lot of cases a government subsidy is nothing but a nice term for a kickback.

From Mr. Webster: " a return of a part of a sum received often because of confidential agreement or coercion"

And 0bamaCare is nothing if not coercive.

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7rob7
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Re: Most of Those Outraged by ACA Enjoy Big Taxpayer Subsidi

Post #5 by 7rob7 » November 15th, 2013, 3:06 pm

I don't argue about the definition of subsidy...

At last! Great news, Jeff, that's going to save us so much time.

… there is a HUGE difference between a tax break and a subsidy.

Well, that didn't take long. Back to Square One again. Shoot.

I'll repeat: any government policy that allows a supplier to lower its prices is a subsidy. Period. The End. It can be a tax break, it can be preferential no-bid vendor contracts, it can be providing auxiliary services (invading a foreign country, for example, in order to secure a supplier's commodity), it can be a cash grant/award… the varieties of governments subsidies is unlimited.

(And exactly the same as working in the public sector vs. the private sector, it makes no difference where the subsidies come from: everyone in America pays taxes, and everyone in America has been subsidized by the government. Period. The End.)
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Re: Most of Those Outraged by ACA Enjoy Big Taxpayer Subsidi

Post #6 by JeffDeWitt » November 15th, 2013, 4:03 pm

Words have meanings, from Mr. Webster.

money that is paid usually by a government to keep the price of a product or service low or to help a business or organization to continue to function


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subsidy

Note the words "MONEY PAID".

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7rob7
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Re: Most of Those Outraged by ACA Enjoy Big Taxpayer Subsidi

Post #7 by 7rob7 » November 15th, 2013, 6:54 pm

That's only one form. Subsidies take many forms, whole bunches of them non-cash forms.
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Re: Most of Those Outraged by ACA Enjoy Big Taxpayer Subsidi

Post #8 by John Thomas8 » November 15th, 2013, 11:21 pm

From here:

Having insurance, even crappy insurance, in the individual market means we are almost by definition, healthy and relatively young. If we were not, we wouldn’t be able to get coverage of any kind in the non-group market. If our ACA-compliant replacement policy costs us more, it’s likely because we’re too affluent to qualify for subsidies.

It takes a remarkable degree of self-absorption and sense of self-entitlement to be healthy, young(ish) and affluent—and yet consider oneself a “loser.” It’s a label I reject out of shame (no matter how much the lazy, superficial MSM want to fixate on me and my “plight”) NOT because there’s anything shameful about being a loser; the shame is in thinking oneself a loser when one is actually fortunate.


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