This is a big deal

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optimusprime
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This is a big deal

Post #1 by optimusprime » November 12th, 2014, 8:58 pm

This is a big deal: The U.S. and China just announced new targets to cut carbon pollution. Get the facts on these historic commitments from the world's two largest economies → http://go.wh.gov/8NHF9H #ActOnClimate

Image

This is a huge win for those fighting for action on climate change: http://ofa.bo/s1Yh
You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.
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pjhimself
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #2 by pjhimself » November 12th, 2014, 10:13 pm

Another view:

. In reality, Beijing hasn’t actually agreed to much: It will try to “stop increasing” carbon emissions by 2030 — which is a slanted way of saying its emissions will continue to grow for another 16 years — and derive 20 percent of its energy from renewables by then, up from about 10 percent now. Though these goals may be codified into Chinese law, the CCP does not have a reputation for respecting the rule of law. And the United States and the international community won’t have any way of enforcing these goals. No wonder Reuters called it a “largely symbolic plan.”

The Obama administration and its allies in Congress surely know all of this, but they don’t care. The deal, realistic or not, offers a valuable talking point for ramming through radical environmental policy.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 ... y-melchior



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7rob7
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #3 by 7rob7 » November 12th, 2014, 11:38 pm

Another [pack of wingnut lies]:

There. Fixed for accuracy.

You're welcome.
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7rob7
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #4 by 7rob7 » November 12th, 2014, 11:44 pm

You're right, OP: this is a big deal, especially since it will increase jobs, save money, make us more secure, and help protect the planet for future generations.

Too bad the douchebags who run the country are too blind and too stupid to know that.
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Bill Bryan
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #5 by Bill Bryan » November 13th, 2014, 6:40 am

I know I repeat myself, but there's unlimited money to be made for the nation that leads the world in producing clean, renewable energy.

If we aren't the country that leads the world, some other country will be, and then we'll be in REAL TROUBLE.
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pjhimself
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #6 by pjhimself » November 13th, 2014, 11:30 am

From Reuters:

. In Oslo, Rajendra Pachauri, the head of the U.N. panel of climate scientists, said the deal was "heartening" even though it fell far short of cuts needed to avert the worst of global warming, from heatwaves to rising sea levels.

For China, the targets add little to its existing commitments to wean itself off carbon, environmental experts said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/ ... YK20141112

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Re: This is a big deal

Post #7 by pjhimself » November 13th, 2014, 12:38 pm

. WASHINGTON — The announcement of new carbon emission targets Wednesday in Beijing isn't really an agreement — much less a formal treaty or even a protocol. It's not legally binding, and the details are vague.

Instead, the United States and China simply agreed to agree.

"I wouldn't even call it a deal. It's a joint announcement," said Elliot Diringer, the executive vice president of the Center for Climate and Energy Solutions. "It's ambitious, but it will require more."

The announcement does set the stage for a bigger agreement — one that would be specific and enforceable — when world leaders meet in Paris next year to hammer out reductions in carbon emissions.






. Even Obama and his Chinese counterpart were careful to couch the agreement in diplomatic, rather than substantive, terms.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /18912061/

Some don't think this is a "big deal"...............

Carry on

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Re: This is a big deal

Post #8 by 7rob7 » November 13th, 2014, 1:43 pm

... there's unlimited money to be made for the nation that leads the world in producing clean, renewable energy.

Yep.

Too bad the conservative oligarchy in America -- the same denialist troglodytes who control media sources like Reuters and USAToday -- will never let that happen unless/until it can suck all the money possible from it.
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #9 by 7rob7 » November 13th, 2014, 4:04 pm

Of course, it this wasn't a "big deal," I don't think the wingnuts would be shitting themselves about it quite so vigorously...
[center]Republicans Vow To Use Expanded Powers To Thwart US-China Climate Deal[/center]
Republicans promised on Wednesday to use their expanded power in Congress to undermine Barack Obama’s historic deal over carbon emissions with China on Wednesday, claiming Beijing could not be trusted to see through its side of an agreement that would ultimately damage the US economy.

The hard-hitting response from top Republicans to the historic deal between the US and China – the world’s two largest emitters – foreshadowed an expected collision with the White House over climate change that looks set to define Obama’s last two years in office and could shape the 2016 presidential elections.
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Bill Bryan
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #10 by Bill Bryan » November 14th, 2014, 1:59 pm

They're against net neutrality, too. Unfortunately, they have no idea what net neutrality is, but if Obama's for it, the Rethugs are against it.

I wish he'd come out in favor of breathing air, and then all these asswipes would try to suffocate themselves.
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #11 by 7rob7 » November 14th, 2014, 2:04 pm

No kidding!

Just slogged through Alex Jones rant about how net neutrality is worse than Hitler...

Great flapping goose butts, what idiots! :sk:
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pjhimself
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #12 by pjhimself » November 15th, 2014, 10:54 am

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... /18940387/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... /18940687/

USA Today thought enough of two views to publish them on its opinion page (void of name calling btw).

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7rob7
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #13 by 7rob7 » November 16th, 2014, 8:23 am

… the conservative oligarchy in America -- the same denialist troglodytes who control media sources like Reuters and USAToday

Opinions from untrustworthy puppets of the oligarchy can pretty much be assumed to be bullshit. Especially so when the denial is grounded in a petulant, "I won't believe it! I won't! I won't!"
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pjhimself
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #14 by pjhimself » November 16th, 2014, 2:32 pm

From the Korea Times:

. When news got out that U.S. President Barack Obama and China’s President Xi Jinping had reached an agreement on climate change, the American blogosphere lit up with negative comments. “The problem is, Obama probably means it,” wrote Jazz Shaw of the major conservative political blog Hot Air, “while China is almost certainly just yanking the world's collective chain yet again with a bit of lip service as they seek better trade arrangements.”

But Jazz Shaw has got it exactly backwards. It’s the United States that cannot be trusted to keep its commitments, because the American political system is mired in a perpetual civil war and at the moment it is the climate-change deniers who have the upper hand. Whereas the Chinese will probably keep their word, because there are no denialists in China and the government is genuinely terrified of climate change.



. Xi did not set this target of capping Chinese emissions by 2030 without a great deal of discussion and debate within the regime. Having made the promise, he will keep it. So will his successors, at least so long as the Communist Party goes on ruling China. Whereas Obama will be gone in two years, and cannot bind his successors to keep his promise in any way.

Indeed, even in the past six years he has never got any legislation on climate change through the Republican-dominated House of Representatives. Instead, he had to resort to issuing executive orders through the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to make even modest improvements like raising the fuel efficiency of U.S.-made cars.


"Big deal" ?

Carry on with the name calling but....... It's not....... A big deal

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optimusprime
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #15 by optimusprime » November 16th, 2014, 7:42 pm

Image
You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.
~ Malcolm XImage

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7rob7
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #16 by 7rob7 » November 16th, 2014, 10:06 pm

Oh, they refuse to believe that, too, OP.

Maybe I should start calling names, if that's the only level they can deal with.
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #17 by pjhimself » November 18th, 2014, 11:35 am

Not a big deal:

.But whereas one side gave it a high gloss, the other seemed to be trying to bury it under the rug. The top story on the website affiliated with the Communist Party flagship paper People's Daily was about Xi and Obama meeting the press -- but the article made no reference to the climate agreement. Other stories on the homepage touched on the climate statement but tended to relegate it to the latter half of the article, and omitted the American-style superlatives. The popular Beijing News, a state-run paper known for gently testing the editorial boundaries, also didn't mention the climate deal in its Nov. 12 cover story on the APEC meeting that brought Obama to China. It focused instead on the meeting's anti-corruption accord and progress on plans for a pan-Asian free trade zone spearheaded by China.
The Obama administration's spin on the deal seemed aimed at drumming up support for the non-binding targets back home. That could be a tough sell. Already Obama is being criticized for the agreement, which was labelled by Republican Mitch McConnell as part of the president's "war on coal." But packaging emission reduction targets for the United States together with Chinese concessions on greenhouse gas emissions could make them a little harder to criticize.
That may help explain Washington's rhetorical excesses -- but why the apathy from Beijing? It may be that Chinese doesn't want to be seen to be bowing to international pressure to curb its greenhouse gas emissions. China has been firm in espousing the principle of "common but differentiated responsibility" when it comes to climate change. The idea is that the lion's share of the burden should fall on the shoulders of developed nations, which have been emitting greenhouse gases the longest. In December 2009, then-Premier Wen Jiabao made it very clear that the main responsibility for climate change lay with Western nations, which fueled their industrial revolution with coal -- decades before China revved up its manufacturing machine. At the Copenhagen climate summit that month, Wen said it was "totally unjustified to ask" developing countries like China to "undertake emission reduction targets beyond their due obligations."

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... usiasm_gap

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7rob7
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #18 by 7rob7 » November 19th, 2014, 3:38 pm

A big deal...

[center]China Sets Cap On Energy Use[/center]
China on Wednesday issued an energy development plan to cap primary energy consumption at 4.8 billion tonnes of standard coal equivalent per year by 2020.

The share of non-fossil fuels in its total energy mix will rise to 15 percent by the same year, according to a plan released by the State Council.

To meet the targets, annual coal consumption will be held at 4.2 billion tonnes until 2020, which is 16.3 percent more than the 3.6 billion tonnes burned last year, according to statistics from China National Coal Association.

Energy self-sufficiency rate will be boosted to around 85 percent and clean energy, such as natural gas, nuclear and renewable energy will be favored. Installed nuclear power capacity is expected to reach 58 million kilowatts by that year.

At least, it's a big deal to those of us who understand what's happening and why...
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7rob7
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #19 by 7rob7 » November 20th, 2014, 8:25 am

Yes, it's a big deal…
[img=center]http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/China-deal-638x532.jpg[/img]
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optimusprime
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Re: This is a big deal

Post #20 by optimusprime » December 1st, 2014, 10:30 pm

Image
You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.
~ Malcolm XImage


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